Author Topic: Rare Live in 1964 Recording  (Read 620 times)

Malc

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Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« on: August 05, 2017, 02:26:02 PM »
Hi all...
Without going into too much detail - I've just come into possession of a bunch of original 60s 'live performance' reel-to reels, and I was somewhat stunned to hear one of them was a recording from the Blind Alley nite club in San Diego, April 5th 1964, featuring an early recording of John in concert. I actually tracked down the tape for the other act on the recording, The Gnu Fokes, but John was apparently supporting them that evening (subsequently confirmed to me by a surviving member of that obscure act) and was subsequently caught on tape as well. A fantastic recording, in excellent quality (and apparently unheard for 40-50 years, since the actual owner/recorder of the performance stored it away - and presumably forgotten about as the tape doesn't list his name on the label)... so my question - what is the relevance of this recording ? Is this one of the earliest known tapes of John in concert ?
Any help appreciated...

John Deutschendorf (announced by the MC as 'John Deutschendorf - The Singing Dutchman')
Live at The Blind Alley 5th April 1964

Cry of the Wild Goose
Four Strong Winds
No More Cane On The Brasos
Far Side Of The Hill
Tomorrow is a Long Time
Don’t Think Twice
Another Country

Roses and Sunshine

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 06:58:09 PM »
I would be inclined, if I came into the possession of such tape, to donate it to The Estate of John Denver, Malc.

That way they would have the option of releasing an authorized version of it to be made available to the public.

You can make contact with the Estate by messaging ADMIN here through this forum.  :)


« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 09:48:17 PM by Roses and Sunshine »

D Searcy

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 10:57:44 AM »
Welcome Malc.
What a great find.
I agree that contacting John's estate is a good thought.
I was not aware that John ever sand the  song, "Tomorrow Is A Long Time".

I have some other very early recordings of John when he was with the group Denver, Boise and Johnson.
I would love to hear your recordings.

Boot Leg

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2017, 11:04:43 AM »
Malc,

That's absolutely great information.

As far as I know the earliest live recording of John Denver we know now is from 1966, on the Merv Griffin show, with the Mitchell Trio, singing "Your Friendly Liberal Neighborhood KKK".
Dick Cerri, DJ from Washington D.C., has the recording of a JD concert from October 1966 where he performed "Leaving on a Jet Plane" for the first time, and that very song is up on YouTube.
We are also aware of quite a few live stuffs of JD from 1967, 1968 and 1969 (thanks to John Marlowe), but none before 1965.
So - yes, you're obtaining the earliest John Denver live recording ever. CONGRATULATIONS! I'll look forward to hearing it.

Contrary to most, I doubt that this tape could be released officially, as you have to cope with copyright problems with Bob Dylan and other songwriters, which is always a tough thing.
It's great that you donate the tape to the Estate, but you should at least preserve a copy - analog or digital - to yourself, lest they couldn't let it out due to copyright reasons!
You can just try using a cassette tape player and a line-in recorder to convert/transfer the tapes to digital by yourself.

I suspect you got the tapes from this thread: Reel to Reel The Blind Alley? It said "The Dutchman" - maybe the owner just didn't know who "John Deutschendorf" was!
It would also be great to inform Randy Sparks, who promoted JD at the time. You can also post on mudcat.org about the tapes - the folks there might be even more interested than us...

Cheers,
Boot Leg

P.S. Better not let it show up on ROIO sites like Dimeadozen or TTD, or some filthy bootleg companies from EU will make bootleg CDs to suck money out of it before the official could do anything!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 11:27:44 AM by Boot Leg »

Boot Leg

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 01:24:59 PM »
So some comments on the songs:

The Cry of the Wild Goose - John might have learned it from Tennessee Ernie Ford, as he learned how to play 18 Holes...

Four Strong Winds - One of the four songs John played for Capitol in 1964, on his first professional recording session produced by Randy Spark's company. Lovely song by Ian & Sylvia; a long-time favorite too. Once heard it on a train in China and it just kind of grew on me. Like meeting an old friend in an unexpected place.

No More Cane on the Brazos - Old spiritual. First heard it by Bob Gibson on his last album 'Stops Along the Way', loved it ever since. Chad Mitchell Trio before JD joined had recorded it too. JD might have learned the song from The Limeliters, who learned it from Bob Gibson.

Far Side of the Hill - One of the four songs John played for Capitol in 1964. Written by Morgan Ames a.k.a. Vicki Arnold. Sad song. John might have learned it from The Limeliters, too.

Tomorrow is a Long Time - Dylan song made famous by Elvis. John couldn't have learned it from Elvis as Elvis didn't release it until 1966. Not from Dylan either, as John said in 1986 that he had never got the chance to meet the Nobel Laureate. Ian & Sylvia released the song in 1964 on their album 'Four Strong Winds', and that's probably where JD learned it from.

Don't Think Twice - I presume it's Don't Think Twice, It's All Right. Just my favorite Dylan song. Ever.

Another Country - John apparently wasn't politically aware enough at the time to sing the Phil Ochs topical song of the same title (though I hope he was!), and all other songs called "Another Country" that I know, were released long after 1964. So might it just be an unknown song written by "The Singing Dutchman"?

So we all know now that John Denver was more into Bob Dylan than Tom Paxton as of 1964, as opposed to after he joined the trio. From 1965 to 1970 he did almost as much Tom Paxton songs as John Denver songs... But has never done another Dylan song after 1965's Mr. Tamborine Man!

The only thing I knew about JD's shows at 1964's Ledbetters is that he frequently performed Civil War Trilogy by Bob Gibson those days. He didn't sing it here, maybe because the song is too long to sing as an opening act... His performance from 1969 stretched over 8 minutes, but is still my favorite rendition of the song.

Again, looking forward to hearing the recording....
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 11:31:27 AM by Boot Leg »

Roses and Sunshine

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2017, 01:56:18 PM »
I'm impressed by your thoughts and comments, Boot Leg.  Thank you very much.

kroma5

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 06:06:58 PM »
Thank you for this information. This is wonderful news.

Malc

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 12:07:07 PM »
Observations following the above notes...

John wasn't overly familiar with Dylan at this stage as, following the first tune - when someone requested 'more Dylan' - John responded that he only knew one other song, 'Dont Think Twice'...
He wasn't keen on The Limeliters either, making it quite apparent that 'there were others better', tho he did acknowledge their talent... and that is how he found 'Far Side...'
The final song, 'Another Country' is credited to Barry McGuire and Rod McKuen (judging by a lyric search)...
Hope that helps...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 03:08:23 PM by Malc »

Elizabeth

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 02:11:36 PM »
HI MALC! Welcome.....that is an incredible find!
I am inclined to think the same as Roses and Sunshine:
Quote
I would be inclined, if I came into the possession of such tape, to donate it to The Estate of John Denver, Malc.

That way they would have the option of releasing an authorized version of it to be made available to the public.

You can make contact with the Estate by messaging ADMIN here through this forum.  :)

Boot Leg

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 10:11:02 PM »
Observations following the above notes...

John wasn't overly familiar with Dylan at this stage as, following the first tune - when someone requested 'more Dylan' - John responded that he only knew one other song, 'Dont Think Twice'...
He wasn't keen on The Limeliters either, making it quite apparent that 'there were others better', tho he did acknowledge their talent... and that is how he found 'Far Side...'
The final song, 'Another Country' is credited to Barry McGuire and Rod McKuen (judging by a lyric search)...
Hope that helps...

Thanks Malc. It's interesting how Dylan had already become THAT famous by the year 1964, when Phil Ochs and Tom Paxton only had their first studio albums out.

I didn't know Barry McGuire also had a song called 'Another Country', but apparently he had. And as Barry was a member of the NCM it makes sense even more.

Funny when Glenn Yarbrough (of The Limeliters) covered Bob Gibson's 'Living Legend', he changed the line "little Bobby Dylan copped my style" to "little Johnny Denver..." The entire song is tongue-in-cheek self-mockery, though.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:58:37 AM by Boot Leg »

Elizabeth

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 02:27:54 PM »
Quote
Funny when Glenn Yarbrough (of The Limeliters) covered Bob Gibson's 'Living Legend', he changed the line "little Bobby Dylan copped my style" to "little Johnny Denver..." The entire song is tongue-in-cheek self-mockery, though.

Thanks Boot Leg! There I go learning something new again.  ;D

JDExpert

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Re: Rare Live in 1964 Recording
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 09:40:20 AM »
What a great find. I have never heard of these recordings, obviously, and I can only join the enthusiastic comments from others. This should be preserved thoroughly and released through the John Denver Estate. The historical value for JD enthusiasts is enormous, and if the quality is as good as you have described it, it may be the catalyst for a new "serious" release of JD material (such as "All of My Memories, Vol. 2" or "Forever, John Vol. 2"). Over the past few years we have seen quite a handful of unexpected material, so I strongly believe there is enough music available for a release in recognition of the 20th anniversary of John's accident. Sony UK re-released the "Ultimate Collection" last month, which is TV advertised, and it has been in the UK Top 10 album charts for four or five weeks now.  So, there is still a market, and from a commercial perspective, this needs to be handled professionally, i.e. through the Estate. I just read that they have agreed to a recording of "Yellowstone (Coming Home)" by one of the tribute acts (unfortunately one of the less talented in my personal opinion), so there is some momentum that shouldn't be missed.

And personally, I cannot wait to hear those old recordings one day ;-)